Curse

FoxBat · May 08, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Careful what you folks wish for....

If the "whiners" just shut up and put those energies into a successful alliance to take the place like you suggest... well you suddenly might find yourself unable to access the mission.

It is not a case of "anyone can get into the mission if they work at it"... because it isn't about working till X point to get into the mission, its about working harder than everyone else. No matter how many people get motivated to farm faction and form mega-alliances instead of whining, the majority will always find themselves excluded. Thats why the missions aren't called "challenges", they are called "elite", they are meant to encourage elitism and competition, so the bottom 95% will always be locked out no matter what.

Now if only this was about team skill (somewhat represented in HA/GvG) rather than corporate faction grinding, that elite label might mean something at least...

Sir Rough Neck · May 08, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

It amazes me to no end to see people whine like this over one mission when you have so many other things you could be doing in Factions. With a game like Guild Wars you should never be lacking in things to do. Go try out the new class's, go try to beat the competitive missions, go do something other than whine on a forum.
I am part of the Luxon #2 Alliance "The Crusaders" we currently have 5 guilds and amass'd 1 million faction on saturday and sunday. We've been busting out butts since release earning faction and still cannot take Cavalon, but we aren't sitting here whining on guru about how unfair it is, we are out there trying to take it. Stop whining and go do something about it.

P.S. Stop with the silver spoon bs, its annoying.

Lonesamurai · May 08, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Ok, this is getting stupid then,

I've been building alliances now for a while, unfortunately they went pear shaped as all but one of the guilds i was due to ally with went luxon (Scum!) and being Kurzick, they couldn't join the alliance...

So heres the thing, If any Kurzick Guild Leaders, who want to play for fun, want to join the WPS alliance, message me on here or ingame (The Awning) and we'll add your guild and get all your guildies up on our alliance forum

master chief matt · May 08, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Rough Neck

It amazes me to no end to see people whine like this over one mission when you have so many other things you could be doing in Factions. With a game like Guild Wars you should never be lacking in things to do. Go try out the new class's, go try to beat the competitive missions, go do something other than whine on a forum.
I am part of the Luxon #2 Alliance "The Crusaders" we currently have 5 guilds and amass'd 1 million faction on saturday and sunday. We've been busting out butts since release earning faction and still cannot take Cavalon, but we aren't sitting here whining on guru about how unfair it is, we are out there trying to take it. Stop whining and go do something about it.

P.S. Stop with the silver spoon bs, its annoying.

would you actualy read what we are saying. i have already done most every build there is in the game, have beaten proph and factions, done uw/fow/hoh/gvg/pvp and solo farming and running. aside from getting titles there isnt much new for me to do. and you realize how much of a pain in the ass it is to take cavalon. and when did anyone say anything about a silver spoon? this is not whining, its asking for a change, whining would be saying "this is stupid, im not going to play gw anymore if they dont make the game revolve around my head" that is whining. Also, these elite missions are prolly just as hard if not harder than uw/fow, that is why i want to try them, i want a challenge, ive played in the competative missions and chalenge missions, they get old, especialy the chalange ones that have no end to them.

Sir Rough Neck · May 08, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

would you actualy read what we are saying. i have already done most every build there is in the game, have beaten proph and factions, done uw/fow/hoh/gvg/pvp and solo farming and running. aside from getting titles there isnt much new for me to do. and you realize how much of a pain in the ass it is to take cavalon. and when did anyone say anything about a silver spoon? this is not whining, its asking for a change, whining would be saying "this is stupid, im not going to play gw anymore if they dont make the game revolve around my head" that is whining. Also, these elite missions are prolly just as hard if not harder than uw/fow, that is why i want to try them, i want a challenge, ive played in the competative missions and chalenge missions, they get old, especialy the chalange ones that have no end to them.

Silver spoon = having everything you want handed to you. I.E. not having to work at getting something you want. Kinda like saying "I can't work hard enough to get Cavalon, Anet should change it so i can go to the elite mission."

Obviously if you can't get into a alliance that has a chance to control Cavalon, or cannot start your own alliance and get there. Then you are not "Elite" enough to do the mission. Maybe you should rethink how good you are a guild wars.

master chief matt · May 08, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Rough Neck

Silver spoon = having everything you want handed to you. I.E. not having to work at getting something you want. Kinda like saying "I can't work hard enough to get Cavalon, Anet should change it so i can go to the elite mission."

Obviously if you can't get into a alliance that has a chance to control Cavalon, or cannot start your own alliance and get there. Then you are not "Elite" enough to do the mission. Maybe you should rethink how good you are a guild wars.

Again, did you even read anything ive posted? i dont want the missions handed to me, i just want different req's of any difficulty that are possible, not easily possible like doing northern wall mission, but possible like ascending and doing something else difficult. honestly, read what we post before you put your opinion down. and again, getting faction and saying you are elite is like getting the phoenix emote and saying you are the best gw player in all of tyria(don get me wrong, anyone with a phoenix is obviously a god in hoh, but it doesnt mean anything in pve, those are two totaly different styles to fighting, and vice versa, a great pve player might be horrible in hoh. being able to to repeatable faction missions like supply run, or scouting missions does not make you elite, ask anyone that and they will tell you the same. Elite status should be reserved for something else, that is possible to attain for anyone. and again, even though i know you wont read this, dont make it easy, make the req for getting into the elite missions challenging, but possible for anyone to do, not restricted to one guild on each faction side at a time.

samifly · May 08, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

I dont care if you make it as hard as doing the Four Horsemen quest, or clearing FoW, just make it possible for an individual or small guild to achieve the ability to get in. Geeze. I dont want it handed to me.

master chief matt · May 08, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

I dont care if you make it as hard as doing the Four Horsemen quest, or clearing FoW, just make it possible for an individual or small guild to achieve the ability to get in. Geeze. I dont want it handed to me.

Thankyou for seeing what i and countless others are talking about, thankyou, that is exaclty what i mean, uber difficulty for everyone, but total posibility for anyone.

Scary Raebbit · May 08, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Farming hardcore makes you elite? I guess that skills don't really matter if you're using the same build to get faction over and over again...

RTSFirebat · May 08, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Rough Neck

Kinda like saying "I can't work hard enough to get Cavalon

Obviously if you can't get into a alliance that has a chance to control Cavalon, or cannot start your own alliance and get there. Then you are not "Elite" enough to do the mission. Maybe you should rethink how good you are a guild wars.

Since when should a game be "work", what your saying is for people to grind for faction. There is nothing elite about getting a lot of faction, far from it.

As it stands the system means the biggest alliance with the most members correcting faction will always be in control. Smaller guilds lose out.

Its a flawed system if I said any, worse then the Favour system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary Raebbit

Farming hardcore makes you elite? I guess that skills don't really matter if you're using the same build to get faction over and over again...

I too am confused how people say faction farming is "elite"... sounds like a big grind to me.

Laura Whitefox · May 08, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

I agree with those ppl who said the req's should be changed. Its ok that town holders can enter these missions no argument here. But as someone pointed out be4 they are called "elite" for a reason. Maybe its just me, but for me, that means ppl who are "elite" in pve can join them.

But currently these missions only mean You are in a mega alliance and You spend most of Your day farming faction. And as ppl said be4 this can be easily done. But if You do this, it doesnt mean that You are elite as a pve player, it only means You have lots of time to spend on gw ^^.

This way really good pve players are restricted to play in those missions, just because they are not in a huge alliance, or cant play 14 hours a day, or want to do somehting else not just farm faction over and over. Personaly i like to be in a smaller guild with my friends. we help each other and do lots of things not just farm faction. guess that means i dont have a chance of getting in but ohwell...

On the other side i agree that it shouldnt be granted to everyone. Just an idea but what if Anet would make some very hard quests (something similar in difficulty to those elite missions) where You can't take hench, only real ppl and if You can beat it You get a title and you can enter those elite missions after with ppl who has the same title too, or with ppl from the alliance that is holding the town. Or if You beat the quest(s), you get an item, and You can enter the elite mission with that, but You have to redo 1 of those hard quests to get another to enter again. Oh and these items would be untradeable/costumized in some way. Ofc town holders could enter without any of these reqs. In my oppinion this way You would prove that You are good in pve and You can work as a part of a team = given You the right to play in those elite missions.

p.s.: Soz for bad english.

Thom · May 08, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

you're alliance doesnt control cavalon/hzh, the guild that has dropped the most faction to date has control, and thats straight from guildwars.com, gaile gray, messege boards on this site and on other sites. so its your guild, with 30 active members droping 10k a day, thats 300k a day. according to the black blades members ive talked to you must donate 10k faction per day that you are online, or you are kicked as a member, and that they are nearly full most of the time, with active members. so add that up and see how rediculousy hard it is to surpass them, and read on the first page where there is a member of the black blades saying it would be rediculous

An alliance of guilds holds the city, so up to 10 guilds and 1000 people. Every day your alliance will lose something like 10% so to hold steady at three million you need 300k daily.

I don't think you understand how difficult it is to hold a large group of people to a repetitive farming tast for a long period of time. A group of hardcore farmers could easily push for a week and get access to an elite area for a day. If 300 people dropped 10k each one day you could also get control for a bit. It is incredibly lame farming the same area repeatedly to gain control of a single instance. The reward just simply aren't there to hord over a prolonged period.

If my 10% is right, the halving time of depriciation is a bit less than a week. So if an alliance doesn't do anything for a week, there faction will half. If what you are saying about the blackblades is right, they only average 40 active members a day to hold at 4 million. I have a feeling that there are more than 40 blackblades.

The mathematics and social structure isn't there to support your thesis. One conversation with one black blade, doesn't mean you have a solid argument. I feel that give it a few monks and any solid group of farmers should be able to access the elite areas for a day or two.

Jagflame · May 08, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

/notsigned

Keep them only for the top alliances. Although there is little chance that I would ever be able to play an elite mission, if I ever played one I'd rather play it because I worked my ass off to get there and actually earned it.

master chief matt · May 08, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagflame

/notsigned

Keep them only for the top alliances. Although there is little chance that I would ever be able to play an elite mission, if I ever played one I'd rather play it because I worked my ass off to get there and actually earned it.

farming for faction isnt working your ass off, its doing the same repeatable quest over and over again for the most part, some do the competative missions and challenge missions as well. working your ass off would be like doing a level like tombs, but have it be more difficult so that a b/p group cant breeze through it, or just nerf the whold b/p thing all together for factions. put in a level like tombs that is rediculously hard and impossible to solo/hench the entire thing, and make that a pre-req to unlocking the elite missions, make it 10 levels for all i care. some of you arent reading what we are writing, we DO NOT want the elite missions handed to us. We just want the ability to compete in them without having to spend all of our time farming faction. we want it to be a chalange that we can boast about, saying that we finished this mission and can do the elite missions. sure, let the top alliance holders still compete in them, that is a tough title to get, especialy now. but dont restrict it to only that, give the rest of us a challenge to get into them.

The Herbalizer · May 08, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

um elite missions for all. yeah great idea. how about mensa for all. or oxford/cambridge education for all.

and no it is not spend your entire life grinding for faction. it works out at something rediculously low that requires minimal work. but few have worked that out as they cannot be bothered to and instead winge.

also a pug wont survive there. a team of 12 all on vent is what i have been told is required to survive. it is by no means easy and requires a team of experienced players. you just have to look at how many pugs die in the first chamber of uw or before the first quest in fow has been finished to figure out barely any will survive their. 8 people is a nightmare to control let alone 12 randoms.

let anyone in for a price and you will have the same people demanding the elite areas for all demanding their gold back as they pugs or poor quality teams the use die too soon.

sure have your elite missions but i bet few will cope with the difficulty. pugs will fail miserably and people will start winging all over again.

cmon people you gota start making uber alliances. speak to friends etc and form a powerful alliance. from what i have gathered it is reset anyway so you all stand a chance of catching up.

master chief matt · May 08, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

If what you are saying about the blackblades is right, they only average 40 active members a day to hold at 4 million. I have a feeling that there are more than 40 blackblades.

thats the thing, they arent holding steady at any number, they are growing every day, a week ago they were at about 1.5 million, now its nearly 4 million
its not about just getting 4 million faction and keeping that level, its about passing them and staying ahead of them, look at the numbers of the towns, it goes up by a couple hundred thousand a day.

master chief matt · May 08, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

um elite missions for all. yeah great idea. how about mensa for all. or oxford/cambridge education for all.

and no it is not spend your entire life grinding for faction. it works out at something rediculously low that requires minimal work. but few have worked that out as they cannot be bothered to and instead winge.

also a pug wont survive there. a team of 12 all on vent is what i have been told is required to survive. it is by no means easy and requires a team of experienced players. you just have to look at how many pugs die in the first chamber of uw or before the first quest in fow has been finished to figure out barely any will survive their. 8 people is a nightmare to control let alone 12 randoms.

let anyone in for a price and you will have the same people demanding the elite areas for all demanding their gold back as they pugs or poor quality teams the use die too soon.

sure have your elite missions but i bet few will cope with the difficulty. pugs will fail miserably and people will start winging all over again.

DUDE, READ WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING, WE DONT WANT IT OPEN TO EVERYONE LIKE ANY REGULAR MISSION, WE WANT IT AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE TO GET TO, JUST WITH A VERY DIFFICULT CHALLENGE. WE WANT IT SO THAT ONLY TRUE ELITES CAN GET THERE, AND BY ELITE I MEAN PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPERIOR IN PVE, NOT AN IWAY WARRIOR THATS RANK 8+++, OR SOMEONE WITH LOADS OF FACTION IN THEIR GUILD. AN ELITE GW PLAYER IS SOMEONE THAT WORKS WELL IN ANY GROUP, BE IT PUG, NOOB, VET, OR SOMEONE TRYING A NEW BUILD. NO ONE IS SAYING THEY WANT THE MISSIONS UNLOCKED IMMEDIATELY, WE ARE SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE, THAT THE REQS TO GET INTO THEM NEED TO BE CHANGED

and, to your mensa/ivy league ed. idea, anyone can get those, its not restricted to anyone based on wealth, creed, free time, or anything. yes, mensa is difficult to get into, but with an iq high enough you can get in. and anyone can get a free oxford/cambridge education at a library, a book is a book if its in a public library or an ivy league school's scholar library. and even though those are some of the most coveted titles in life, they are obtainable by anyone

The Herbalizer · May 08, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

DUDE, READ WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING, WE DONT WANT IT OPEN TO EVERYONE LIKE ANY REGULAR MISSION, WE WANT IT AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE TO GET TO, JUST WITH A VERY DIFFICULT CHALLENGE. WE WANT IT SO THAT ONLY TRUE ELITES CAN GET THERE, AND BY ELITE I MEAN PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPERIOR IN PVE, NOT AN IWAY WARRIOR THATS RANK 8+++, OR SOMEONE WITH LOADS OF FACTION IN THEIR GUILD. AN ELITE GW PLAYER IS SOMEONE THAT WORKS WELL IN ANY GROUP, BE IT PUG, NOOB, VET, OR SOMEONE TRYING A NEW BUILD. NO ONE IS SAYING THEY WANT THE MISSIONS UNLOCKED IMMEDIATELY, WE ARE SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE, THAT THE REQS TO GET INTO THEM NEED TO BE CHANGED

um completing the game or something along those lines does not show anything. you could be a complete newb but your guild let you tag along. you could pay someone to do the missions for you. completing the game or whatever you suggest does not show you are a veteran. heck i know people who have done all of tyria missions and bonuses and completely suck.

scenario: guild: we are heading out to do mission xxx in xxx seconds or whatever you claim proves you are a pro

random guild newb: can i come as i need the mission

guild: sure

random guild newb: *does nothing special and just lurks in the background*

random guild newb then has access to the most elite missions in the game and is now considered a pro.

12 newbs who have completed game through doing this all meet up in the town.

they enter the mission

due to their lack of knowledge and mediocre skills they all die quickly

newbs with little understanding and who are by no means considered veterans all complain and winge that it is too hard and its all anets fault.

with favor based system same thing will happen.

at least with alliances controlling entry they can decide who they play with to ensure they succeed. otherwise whether you like it or not a ton of newb pugs will be being formed for the elite mission and they will all cry and complain.

alliances should have nice stuff to aim for. maybe introduce other elite areas for people who cant be bothered with it. but let the current elite missions be based on the amount of faction they have.

Shanaeri Rynale · May 08, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

So what if they try and fail? Does it devalue the challenge? Nope it only increases it. Why do people bring up the degree of challenge as an argument to preventing people from attempting it? It's not as tho they will die in real life is it.

So what if people complain it's too hard to do well there, at least they've been able to have a go and it's been a measure of their current level of ability.

Point is it takes no skill to grind faction and significant skill to do well in one of the missions. If all I do is run fish for 2 hours a day that no more makes me able to take on these missions than if I was just picked up by a pug.

Question? How much skill does it take to generate 10K faction a day? answer very little.

How much skill does it take to complete one of these elite missions?
Answer a high degree.

People are comparing different things.

Yes i know there are only 2 missions, 1 for each side. One thing to bear in mind, to those who have been there would'nt you like to try both at some point in time. In the current system you cannot, so in a way you are just as trapped as those who have been to neither.

master chief matt · May 08, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

um completing the game or something along those lines does not show anything. you could be a complete newb but your guild let you tag along. you could pay someone to do the missions for you. completing the game or whatever you suggest does not show you are a veteran. heck i know people who have done all of tyria missions and bonuses and completely suck.

at least with alliances controlling entry they can decide who they play with to ensure they succeed. otherwise whether you like it or not a ton of newb pugs will be being formed for the elite mission and they will all cry and complain.

Im sure that when tombs, sf, uw/fow opened up we had people dying in the first rooms by the aataxes, and it took time for everyone to come up with builds, that will happen, but not if the "elite" guilds that farm for faction all day are the only ones allowed in. of course they will reign supreme in the elites as they dont allow anyone outside their guild in there. and from what everyone has said, you cannot stand idle and get drops, there are rooms with -15hp degen and -4energy degen. so you must be elite to even be in the places. and people whining and complaing that a mission is too hard for them is exactly that, idle complaining. elite missions are not meant to be do-able by anyone in any group, it has to be organized, a tight group, if a group of noobs who bought their accounts on ebay and have full map unlocked including elite missions can get in, beat them, and get the best drops in them, then they arent elite missions are they? no one is saying make it open for us all, just make it so that people who are not in the controling alliances can get to them, regardless of how hard the pre-req mission is, make it a challenge, like getting fow armor, anyone can get it, but you must first clear rooms, and do missions for the forger b4 he will even forge anything, then you ahve to farm for mat's. obviously no noob just standing by in the background can do that.

as for completing the game not proving you are a vet, i firmly believe that it makes you a better player, and if you payed for a mission run then you didnt beat the mission or the entire game, and if you're guild let you tag along while they did all the work, then you didnt beat the game. if you join a group, complete a mission and do your equal share of work then you have truly beaten the mission/game. and i never said make that the only req, i said make it a req.